Why Your $1,500 Agency Might Be Costing You More Than $5,000 Would with Nina Youé

Ever wondered why a $1,500 a month agency can end up costing you more than a $5,000 one? In this episode I sit down with Nina Youé, founder of social media agency Flicker, to pull apart everything nobody tells you about hiring for your marketing.

→ Why chasing ads before you've nailed your brand is setting your money on fire
 → The real difference between a $1,500 retainer and a $5,000+ one (and why the cheapest agency "doesn't have staff")
 → How one Instagram follower turned into $1,200 in revenue
 → Top, middle and bottom of funnel content, explained simply
 → Why Nina rebranded Flicker twice, and what finally made it stick
 → The mindset shift from posting for likes to building a personal brand people actually trust

Nina started with zero experience in the space and built Flicker from the ground up, and this conversation is proof that the messiest starting point can still lead somewhere incredible, if you're obsessed enough with getting it right.

If you found value in this one, take a screenshot, share it to your stories and tag us both with your biggest takeaway. I'd love to know what landed for you.

Connect with me:
→ https://www.instagram.com/sammykennedyofficial
→ https://www.facebook.com/sammykennedycoach/

If you have any questions about the episode, have a burning question you would like me to answer on the show, or want to join our movement of ambitious beauty leaders, connect with me and the rest of our incredible community on Instagram:
→ https://www.instagram.com/sammykennedycoach/
→ https://www.instagram.com/sammykennedyofficial 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

How did you feel going, I'm gonna actually charge you for this? That was terrifying. And like everybody, when you have your first client, you undercharge a ridiculous amount. It's just, oh my god, somebody wants to pay me to do something that I will do in my spare time. It was a little bit of a light bulb moment. This has been a journey, I would definitely say. I found it very hard to kind of transition into being a personal brand and not being as afraid to admit what my goals are and to put myself out there a bit more is just petrifying. Putting yourself out there, you thought I look like I can't hate my voice.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

There is videos where I look like homes tips and my skin is so yellow, it looks like Jordan's. But when I watch it back, I'm like, that's not even that bad. It wasn't even that bad, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

These aren't the brands they are without the founders. It's that weird parasocial relationship that happens. We want to see the downfalls because that's relatable, but then that's when we want to support and give back. It's not the best content, it's not the best business, it's not the best service, it's the people behind it. What have been some of the best investments you've made? A business coaching course, and I feel like they really got me through those early phases of the business where you have absolutely no idea what you were doing. I've posted one reel on my account. I think it's gotten four million views, three million, one meal, literally the exact same video, months apart as well. What was it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Hello and welcome back to another episode on the Delusional Podcast. I'm your host, Sammy Kennedy. And today I'm joined by a founder who has built an incredible business with social media marketing, specializing in short form content and going viral without fail. Nina Yue has not only been a Pilates instructor, she's been in all the events, she's done all the things, she's doing UGC, she's now teaching other brands how to build not only a business with their marketing, but a personal brand. And I think this episode is going to dive deep into all the things you want to know, but you don't necessarily know where to find the answers for. Welcome to the show, Nina. How are you feeling? I'm feeling very excited to be here. Thanks for having me. What's one thing that you've been called delusional for?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Many a thing. Definitely probably starting my business with absolutely zero experience in the space. I genuinely fell into it by total accident. And one day I just popped up on Instagram and said, hello everybody, I now have an agency. And of course, everyone's like, What do you mean? No, you don't. And then three months in, it started to take off, and here we are. How old were you when you first started your business? So I've always been in content creation more from a personal lens. I got into it when I was teaching Pilates, started my own personal brand. So I was doing UGC and those things when I was maybe 21. But then when I was 23, that's when I got my first social media client and started my business from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

What was the initial thought process of like, how do I like get paid to do this? Because it's really easy when you're doing modeling, when you're doing UGC or content creation, everyone's like, I'll just collab and I'll do it for free. How did you feel going, I'm gonna actually charge you for this?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

That was terrifying. And like everybody, when you have your first client, you undercharge a ridiculous amount. I think I was charging a third of what we do now, even less. Um, and because I was so passionate about it, like I genuinely just adore content creation and always have. Um it was a sh yeah, it was just, oh my god, somebody wants to pay me to do something that I will do in my spare time and absolutely adore it. It was a little bit of a light bulb moment where I realized, wow, you actually can make a career out of something you're truly passionate about.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Did you have the blueprint from your own trial and error, or were you taking on these clients and just given that creative freedom to figure out what works, what doesn't work?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

A little bit of both. I would say there was a lot more pressure when I had a client to understand marketing and strategy and socials. And I genuinely threw myself into it. I do feel though, with socials, everyone thinks there is this secret source that you're missing. There's this blueprint that everybody has that you don't. That is not the case. There are the fundamentals, there's your branding, there's all those bits and pieces that we love and we do for our clients that are essential. But each brand is so unique and requires such a different strategy and approach. And I think it took me a bit of trial and error with both my brand and my clients to realize that the art in social media is not necessarily, you know, the perfect posting time and the perfect edit. It's finding your brand and your voice and your unique personality and then conveying that onto socials.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I could not say it better myself with having to focus on the brand first. Like how many times do we have businesses go, I need marketing, I need marketing, let's do ads. And when you ask them, can you provide your brand identity? What are your values? What's your point of difference? And they sit there and go, I don't know what goes wrong when someone pours more fuel on the marketing fire without having a brand.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Everything. Everything. It's genuinely like setting your money on fire. A lot of clients come to us and they want the whole thing. They go, right, we're doing ads, we're doing this, we're doing that. And I really have to break it down to them that there's actually no point in doing a lot of these things, particularly ads, because you are sinking a lot of money into that. If you are not utterly obsessed with your brand, if your website is not high converting, if you don't have really high-quality social media that they're going to go to, it just dilutes the impact of your name, of the effort that you're putting in, and you're not going to get the result that you're wanting if you don't take the time to build that foundation first. So we actually don't take clients on who don't have a brand kit or they haven't done the foundational work because we can do it for them, but they need to do it, and we're not gonna allow them to kind of go to step 10 when they're at step one.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Totally. The analogy I always use is imagine if you had a baby and you gave them away and then they came back when they were 18, and you're like, that doesn't sound like what I sound like, or it doesn't have the same value, or whatever it is. That's exactly what it's like when you just go to a social media manager or a website designer and say, Hey, can you make this work? Yeah, post for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

And I I think a lot of agencies do that in a sense. I think sometimes we miss the mark in the social media industry and don't look at the full picture of the business. So I think that's something I've probably learnt more so in the past couple of years, learning more about business as a whole and marketing as a whole. Social media is just one piece, but it doesn't work unless the whole thing is working together. You can't just nail your social media, but again, not have a good website and not have a good brand and expect it to work. So we really try and take the approach of looking at your entire business, where is the most leverage? Where can we focus our effort? And then how can we use socials to amplify that and get your name out there?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

If I were coming to you and I wanted to start marketing and I heard the price tag and went, oh, that's so expensive, I don't want to do that. Can you break it down for me? How much time, effort, and different roles essentially are involved in social media management? Yes, absolutely. My favorite topic.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

So social media is a very unique space. Again, it's very undervalued, I think, because technically you can do it yourself. However, if you want it done to a high quality, and within our team, we have about four different roles on each account. So first you have your strategists, so they're the ones who are designing what we're going to be posting, why they understand psychology, the marketing funnel, they look at your business, your target audience, they break all of that down. Then you've got your account manager, who's the one who is actually, you know, writing the captions, posting for you, generally communicating with the client. Then we'll have a designer who's working on the graphic side of things, and then also video editors who are editing your videos. Each of those roles individually are probably working on your account 10 hours a week. So that is on one account about 40 hours per week of staff input that we have. And that is why people say that our prices are high. But it's like with anything, like if you go and get your hair done, if you go get your nails done, I personally would prefer to pay a high price because I know that there's quality that comes with that. And we are very intentional with that positioning because we want clients who see the value in what we do and they appreciate it and like they get the results that speak for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

That's so true. Like, I'm all for getting support in your business when you know it's a specialist. There's a lot of people out there who have just decided, hey, I've bought these Etsy templates, I'm gonna call myself a social media manager. But like you were saying, there are different roles that make a successful social media strategy work. Yeah. Now, with you, you're an expert at short form content. You've not only made it work for your personal brand, you've made it work for Flickr, you've made it work for all of your clients. There's no silver bullet, no secret source. How the hell do you just figure out what works?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

There's definitely a level of experimentation, but then there is also majority of it, it does come down to me personally being obsessed with socials and understanding the psychology behind it. I would actually say social media is mostly a psychology game. And it sounds bad to say, but it is true. The goal is to hack attention and to keep it. And if you can figure out how to do that, you can rinse and repeat pretty much that same formula, depending what niche you're in, across multiple clients. Even sometimes we have had basically the same video go viral multiple times on the one account within the same month. And I'm talking like 10 million plus views on essentially the same video, just with minor tweaks throughout it. So I would definitely say the viral component or even just the attention and high performance component actually comes down to understanding how people consume content, what they want to see, what entertains humans, what makes them act at the end of the day. You just want a feeling, whether that's that was funny, that was relatable, I'm gonna send it, oh my God, I'm gonna change my life after that. Maybe you make them angry. There's all of these emotions that you want them to feel, and your job in social media is to pick which one you want to pull on, what thread, what's your goal, and then hack their attention.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

It's so true. The stats just came out recently that we are spending on average seven hours a day on our phones. That's brutal. What is that in a lifetime? Do the math seven hours a day times seven. That's 49 hours a week. That's almost two days. That's two days a week. That you're just spending on your phone, let alone sleeping, let alone going to work, let alone doing all the things. Yeah. You know, I think this is why a lot of people do feel isolated and they're so lonely. They're then using Instagram or TikTok or YouTube. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah. I, you know, have mixed feelings about social media. I love it from the opportunity perspective and what it does for businesses. But I do, of course, see a downside, particularly with platforms like TikTok that really are designed to keep you on there for as long as possible. So, with our content, you know, we make sure that it is genuinely valuable and targeted to our audience. And it's not just for the sake of it, it's not just for views, it's there's an intention behind it.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Coming back to what you were saying before around having your content out there, having a content strategy, what makes a good strategy versus a bad strategy? Because as you probably know, when you ask someone what's your social media strategy, they always say they have a strategy, but I would say 90% of people do not even have a strategy. Not at all.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

This is actually something that when I started, I was obsessed with the word strategy. Again, I thought there was some, there is a blueprint and I am missing it. And little did I know, I really understood the fundamentals long, long, long time ago. So for us, when we say strategy, we look at pretty much two main things: your business and your goals, and then your audience. Those are the two things that we're thinking about. So let's say your business and your goals. If you have 3,000 followers, maybe your goal is to gain reach. You want to gain followers. That is a different goal to having 10,000 followers and you're launching a new product and you want bookings. So, firstly, we're figuring out what's your first goal, what's your second goal. Everybody does want a little bit of everything, but predominantly we're focusing on that. From there, we then want to match the content to your audience. What is going to speak to them, depending on which piece of the funnel that they're at and what our goal actually is. So, for example, let's go back to, you know, 3,000 followers, you're trying to grow followers. Your audience is 20 to 30-year-old girls, and you're in the beauty space. You want to be posting a lot of reach content. So reach content looks very, very different to, you know, conversion or sales content. And this is where people start to really get confused because they typically go way too heavy on content that is trendy, that gets views, you know, that's funny and it looks good, but it's not doing anything for your business. Or vice versa. They are obsessed with talking about themselves, of selling, and they like forget that there's nobody there to speak to. So the strategies again, finding out where your business is at, what are you trying to do? Where is your audience at? And how can we kind of bridge the gap between those two using your content?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

That's so valuable the way you put it like that. Understanding that there's actually a goal here because everyone thinks, oh, if I just post consistently, it will all just magically work one day. But you could post consistently for years, and maybe you do by accident, by some algorithm miracle, you go viral. But then once again, what are you actually doing? Yes. What are you trying to achieve? Where are you leading the audience to?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yes, virality is great, but is not a business strategy. I think a lot of our clients too, you know, a big piece of what we do is actually educating them and we really try and bring them along for the process so they understand. And the more they do understand, the more value they get out of it, the more they, you know, you know, for the long haul, they invest more time and energy and they give credit to their social media because they understand what working looks like. Because, for example, a post might get, you know, a thousand likes and they're like, cool, that's great. Let's do more of that. And I go, okay, that's great that it got that, but it's like literally a cat trend or it's something so unrelated to your business. The one that's actually going to generate you money is the post that got 20 likes, but it got like four conversions from it. And breaking that down to them of going, you know, this doesn't look that great, but this is what's getting you sales, this is why we're using it, or you know, this is why we're doing more of this or less of this, and they start to go, oh my god, okay, I get it now. And they let us cook, and that's when they really see the return. Um, so yeah, there is a learning curve there too, and understanding what good content is is not just viral. So true.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

I have had clients in the past who are sending me profiles and they're like, this is who I want to be. And I'm like, why do you want to be like them? For what purpose? What are you chasing? Is it identity? Is it money? Is it virality? And like you were saying, the posts that are video testimonials that might only get two likes, they're starting the conversation. 100%. And I think something that so many people get, I guess, derailed by is this strategy does not look successful in terms of likes, comments, and stuff. So then they stop doing it. Yes. How long should you be implementing a strategy before you completely write it off and say it doesn't work? Three to six months.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Depending how active they are, but I would say three months absolute minimum. But if you've changed a lot, I would definitely say six months. And I know everybody gets terrified by that and it does feel like a long time, but you can't even really measure accurately the results before three months. And I think another thing people should be more conscious of is what they're actually looking at to measure. Socials are a lot trickier than, let's say, paid ads to see, you know, a direct return on investment or to see somebody's clicked through. It's a lot more passive than that. So understanding, you know, how can I actually measure success? Because it, like you say, it's not just likes, it's profile visits, it's are my followers staying? Are they engaged with the content? It's are my DMs going up, am I getting a lot of clicks to my website? Like all of these things mean so much more for a business than just how many likes your post got that month. But definitely three to six months, I would say, before you can make some serious adjustments and go yes or no.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

It's interesting you say that because obviously with ads, you get the whole ads library, you can customize all the settings. If you want to track organic, you actually have to create your own tool or calculator. I did that for an awards application recently with the bowling alley, and I was doing okay, how many people are viewing this, how many people are commenting, how many are taking action, and actually from each post, how many DMs are we getting? Yeah. If we don't track that, there's no way of knowing whether is all the time and energy we're putting into this worth it or not. And I think that's where a lot of people get lost because if their social media agency is not tracking these things and they're unable to show an ROI, they're just showing that they're posting. Yes. How do you know if your money's well spent? Yeah. You're obviously doing the right thing if you're able to go. This is what we're doing for you. Here's the strategy, and here's the proof. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Exactly. We actually just did some reporting yesterday because it's obviously the start of the month. Um, and we really try and break it down for the client because again, they also don't know this. Like nobody teaches you this stuff of this is what you should be looking at and this is how you measure it. So we have an equation that we do use for our clients, which kind of again takes them through a more holistic view of their business. So we look at, you know, how many views are you getting each month on your page? That's obviously our job. Get as many people to your page as possible. From there, we then break it down. Maybe 2% are clicking the link in your bio. Great. That's another strong metric from us. Now we're on your website. Yes, their website needs to do the heavy lifting there, like we've got them there. Let's say maybe 10% of those people then convert from their website. From there, we then calculate, okay, what's your average order value from your client? Let's say it's $100. Great. But then they come back every month for, you know, 12 months. So that's $1,200. The maths is mathing right now. $1,200. So that's how we can kind of break down, cool. We just got you a thousand clicks onto your page, which is a hundred people converting, which is that's too much maths for me. A lot of money for that year from organic socials. So we we really try and find metrics analytics data that we can use and pull and explain to them, and we really break it down literally like nobody wants to do maths on their socials, so that they can actually see, wow, like I didn't see a cost come through from an ad or a click-through, but I'm feeling that impact in my business and it's long term, they're coming back.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

When you talk about a marketing funnel, I think there's so many business owners who keep hearing that word get thrown around. They don't understand it. There's funnels in ads, there's funnels, there's like a whole funnel from the point of I'm coming across your brand for the first time through to now I'm a paying customer. What parts of the funnel do you find most people don't understand or they're not even including in their business? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

I would probably say it is top of funnel. I think that is the piece that gets neglected. I think people focus a lot on bottom because obviously that's where, you know, they see the money come in. But if there is nobody at the top of your funnel, there's going to be absolutely nobody at the bottom. And awareness branding, whether that is social media or billboard advertising, again, you cannot, it's really hard to track this person found me from Instagram six months ago and then they've been watching my content and now they've converted and become a client. So it's easy for people to write that off as it's an you know, it's not essential in my business. But what they will start to see after a few months, after a few years, is the traffic is slowing. Their competitors' brands are building, theirs isn't, and they're wondering why, you know, their books are empty and things are quiet, and it's because they've invested way too heavy at the bottom, but there's there's nobody there. Nobody's coming in at the top. So I would say top of funnel is the most neglected.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Can you give me an example of let's say there's a skin clinic, what would the top of funnel, middle of funnel versus bottom of funnel look like?

SPEAKER_01 21:12

So top of funnel is attracting people. So they've never heard of you before. So here you don't want to be salesy, you don't really want to talk about yourself, you don't want to be super specific to you because people don't care. People don't care about you until they know you. Your job is for them to find you and for them to feel something and feel that they can get something out of you. So, for example, in content, this would look like maybe breaking down celebrity skin routines or going through popular products that are trending, things that are really accessible that anybody can understand without needing to know your business. Like, I don't need to know where your skin clinic is to watch you break down Hailey Bieber's facial. I'll still be interested in that. That is top of funnel content. And that could also be, you know. Going to an event, partnering with somebody, just having your logo somewhere. That is brand awareness. It's just getting your name out there, getting people onto your page, and getting them, again, noticing your brand. Middle of funnel is where we want to start to build that relationship. So this is more nurture content. So maybe we're educating them. Oh, you saw Hailey Bieber's facial. Well, this is our version at our skin clinic. And let me walk you through a treatment here. This is who Hailey Bieber's facial is really good for. We do this at our skin clinic. Or maybe it's, you know, meet the team or just something that's got a bit more personality to it. And now I kind of care about you because I've seen your top of funnel content. It was a value to me. Now I follow you. Now I'm like, oh, she seems nice. Oh, like they do the Hailey Bieber facial. Then comes the bottom of funnel where it's our Hailey Bieber facial, start to finish. Like click the link in our bio, here is where you can buy. That's where you're getting them to actually take action and book the thing in.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

The way you explain that so eloquently, it makes sense. You're taking them on a journey. You're not just saying, before and after, buy now, book now. Here's our results. Here's a test. Like, why would I buy that from you? I don't know you. I always think that. Like if I was doing, I don't know, coaching or consulting, and all I ever did was post screenshots of text messages from client success stories and reviews, people would be like, but who are you? What's your strategy? Or they wouldn't even have found you because what's your point of difference? You know, they wouldn't have found you in the first place. So when you look at, okay, here's the funnel. What are the most important things for us to do to really leverage social media to be a money-making tool? Because so many people just fall into the trap of like, hey, I'm posting, I'm hoping, but how do you actually make sure you invest that time in a way that brings an ROI?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I think it is obviously having the strategy, but making sure you're adapting it each month. So we kind of go through phases. So typically when we start with our clients, we are posting off the top of my head, I think it's 60% reach content, 30% in the middle, 10% conversion. That is a generally really good place to start where you're kind of trying to get some traction and get new people onto the page. But then after a month or two or three, depending how it goes, then we will switch it and we might go far heavier on conversion content. Or maybe they've got a new offer. So obviously we want to sell the offer. So we're working on conversion content. And then, cool, we've sold the thing, but now our reach is really down or our engagement's dropped because we've been selling a lot. So now we go into some nurture content and we're trying to build that community and audience up again. And I think when you have that plan in your mind and you know what metrics correlate to that plan and you can track it, that's when you start to feel really confident in your socials and you see it as a tool. It's like a little levers you can pull of cool, I'm selling things, let's go on my socials, let's pump conversion content out. Oh, reaches down lately, let's, you know, go back to top of funnel. We're gonna post some fun trends, or like was the Met Gala this week, that's viral at the moment, let's jump on the back of that. Um, and like I said, when you start to see your phases working intentionally, that's when it like all clicks, and you just need it to happen once. You need to see that result once, and then you're in. You commit to the socials, you're staying consistent.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

It's so true. Like I had a post go viral, and then I was like, oh, obviously, this is what people want to know. And I was talking about the F post surcharge fees, but I did the math. I was like, if you have a service this much and you sell this many, this is what it's gonna do. And then I just kept replicating it in different ways. What are some social media styles of content or formats that you've done that have just hit the mark again and again?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Anything that's kind of like a meme style but related to your industry pops off. Carousels at the moment are absolutely popping off. That are literally simple swipes, one line on the screen, and it's just something relatable that gets shared around. That is a really classic. The star sign ones. The star sign ones, like again, anything where it's people see themselves in and they're like, ha ha, that is so me. Like, send to a friend. Other ones we love for short form content is again seeing what's trending. So a lot of our clients, um, their audience are females. So anything like Paris Fashion Week or celebrity style or just any big events like that, jumping off the back of those, knowing that they're trending on social is like almost guaranteed to go viral because so many people are searching those keywords on socials. It's like the top trending thing on TikTok. Um, and if you can jump onto the back of one of those but then relate it to your service, again, like let's make Hailey Bieber's hair from the Met Girl. I don't know why Hailey Bieber's topic of the day. Is this your person or she's my person? Um, but that's like almost guaranteed to go viral. So those are some triggers that we like to pull.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I'm just thinking, like if you had the bowling alley, yes, while we're bowling, we've got some levers to pull, all right? We've got about 5,000, I think we're almost on 6,000 actually, followers there. And we've got 75,000 on our pet bulls page. If you had essentially a personal brand, which is the bull, and you've got the business, how would you leverage the content to go viral?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

The first thing I think about when I think of a bowling alley is filming people doing like weird bowling techniques. Is actually the first thing I think of that I think would go viral is pretending to stand far away from somebody and pretending you're a customer, filming another customer doing this obscure bowling technique. It would almost guaranteed go viral. Half of the comments would say you're bullying them, but then you would reveal in the next like episode that this was actually like the owner of the place and they're welcoming you. I would be doing something like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And if you had a book launch, because we do have a book launch, how long would you think, okay, there's a strategy we've got to implement here? You'd be, I'm assuming, doing awareness for a while, trying to collect leads for that. How long of a runway would you give yourself before you go ham in that kind of strategy? What's the book about? The book is about our whole lives, all the businesses we've owned, Bruce the Bull, and his relationship with my dad, and then going to open up Wild West Bowling. So it's by an award-winning author. She's already had this book that she wrote the first one, uh, sell eight and a half thousand copies. And so this is something that's just been playing in my mind. I'm like, okay, Bruce in the bowling alley, viral moment, easy. But then creating the landing page, collecting the leads, like as a social media expert, what kind of things would go through your mind when you're thinking of like doing a big launch for something? How are you, how are you even looking at content, like all the different layers?

SPEAKER_01 29:11

I know there's a lot there. I would probably say three months, but the first, even two months, I would be very subtle about it. I wouldn't really be talking about the thing because I think people lose interest quite not lose interest, but if they see something and they're interested, they want to buy it then and there. So they don't want to be waiting for months knowing that this thing is coming. So I would be taking the first couple of months and going really hard on storytelling, on like the different characters in the book and like how they came to be, and kind of building this narrative already, and so that your audience is like, oh my god, I love Bruce, I love Sammy, I love this, I love that. Like they've already got their character in their head. Storytelling content is really strong at the moment on socials, so I would be leaning into that and giving little snippets of lessons and you know, huge wins, huge losses. And again, just getting people invested in the story and getting value out of it before the book has even launched. And what that does is yes, they get invested and they they're waiting for it, but they almost feel this sense of I want to give back to you because you've given to me. So the first part of a launch I would say is actually more how much value can I be giving my audience? I want to make them feel a part of this, but I want to give them something back too. And then when you launch, half of it is yeah, I want the book, but the other half is I just want to support these people because I feel like I know them and I feel like I'm a part of the journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

That's really valuable. And also ties in exactly with why we did the YouTube. Because it's like if we go to launch anything, you've already got that level of connection. Yes. I love how your brain thinks because I'm lazy. Like before we got on this podcast, I said to Nina, I was like, I really respect what you do because I'm lazy in the sense that I want one long-form piece of content that's got storytelling, it's got interesting parts, and I can just chop up and get like multiple videos. Whereas what you do, you're going full-blown social media strategy. We've got the short form stories, like everything ties in. When we think about social media, it's not just posting to your feed. There's different elements. We've got stories, we've got going live if you want to go live, we've got reels, we've got carousels. How would you look at the different formats of content and make that work in with the strategy? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

This is a good question. I actually did a post on this the other day. I will say there's no blanket rule here, and I will say every account is different, but generally, reels are really good for reach, is what we've found. Short reels in particular, the most simple reel we've ever made. B-roll, trending audio, and then text on top that's, you know, relatable or relates to some trending thing on Instagram works really, really well. Carousels we found are really, really good for middle of funnel because you just have more time to explain things. I think also, I think reels used to be good for that, but our attention span is just going down and down. And me personally, I don't want to watch a minute and a half, you know, talking head video. I prefer to get a lot of information in a carousel. Um, stories, the best for conversion, by a country mile. Like, firstly, you can actually put a link on there so it's easy to click through, but also they're just so personal. So I would be saying we want to be using stories daily, and it's, you know, really raw snippets. What are you guys up to in the clinic today? Like live storytelling, gives people the opportunity to connect with you. It's really easy to DM you, they can reply. And then when you post your offer, it's really easy again to either ask you questions or to convert. Reels, carousels, I honestly don't even use static posts. I don't really see too much point in them. But reels generally, I'd say really good for top of funnel, carousels, middle and bottom.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

I love that you're explaining it in that way because most business owners who don't understand marketing think that posting content, reels or carousels, that's what's going to get them sales. But as we both know, stories are actually where the magic happens. 100%. Like without a doubt, it blows my mind every time. So we've spoken about reels, carousels, not really doing static posts, and we've got stories. What about DMs? What are your thoughts with personally taking the time to message voice note versus streamlining everything with many chat automations? I do a bit of both.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

So every time we get a new follower, we manually reach out to them and we pretty much have a DM sequence that our team manages. And honestly, that has been huge because when people do follow us, it obviously there is an intent there. Like they're typically interested in elevating their socials. And it kind of fast tracks the funnel process because a follower is kind of, you know, they've just found us, they're maybe at the top, maybe kind of in the middle. If I reach out to them and we start to get into a conversation, I can ask about their business. We're very, very quickly moving them down to the conversion phase, which for us is, you know, book a call with us and we'll go through everything with you. Um, so I would highly recommend doing that if you've got the capacity to do it. I also love many chat. Obviously, the volume, the scale is crazy. I think it's a less a little less intimidating for people as well because they kind of just go into the pipeline. They don't have to, you know, personally talk to somebody or admit they need help, which is something I find people struggle with too. Um, but the conversion rate's definitely lower because they don't have that personal touch. Whereas when you can DM them and you can customize it and you know, you voice note them and you're like, oh my God, I just had a look at your page, I love this, or like tell me about yourself, tell me about your skin, what are you looking for, and you give them that custom approach. Again, people want to give back and they're invested in your business and your brand, and the conversion is much stronger there. Depends what you're selling, I would say, as to which one you want to use. If it's a high-ticket one-on-one service, custom DM, chat to them. If it is an ebook, if it's a digital product, if it's anything like that, many chat.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

It's really one of those things where people want instant as well. Like if I was signing up for your trend tracker, let's say, I don't want to have to wait 24 hours until you're ready and you can message me. But if I was like, hey Nina, I'm struggling with my marketing, what do you think the best approach is? I would be happy to wait for you to like send me that voice note back and be like, Sammy, I've looked over this, you're doing this really well, this is where we can pull more leverage.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

All right, now I want to talk about you because you've done some really incredible things with Nina UA as a personal brand and also Flickr. How have you intertwined your personal brand as a founder and your business brand? Because this is the hottest thing. Everyone should be investing in it. And I want to hear your whole journey.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Yes. This has been a journey, I will definitely say. I found it very hard to kind of transition into being a personal brand and not being as afraid to admit what I what my goals are and to put myself out there a bit more. You know, we grew up in the era of Instagram, just being like pretty selfies, static photos and like trying to look good. That was kind of the era we were in. And being authentic and bold about I want to build this massive business and I want to help people do this is like a terrifying place to be. I do think Flickr really helped me in feeling confident, I guess, in my credibility that what I was saying, you know, had legs to it, which has definitely helped. Um, they really fed into one another, I would say. Like, I kind of see my personal brand as it's me, it is authentically me, but it is also this kind of part of me that I get to characterize, and it's like the best version of myself that is inspired by Flickr, and vice versa. They work really nicely together.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

How long has it been? I was scrouting through my mind, and it was on a party bus years ago. The party era. Like Magnet House had just opened up. We were somehow on this bus. There's this chick with the ponytail, iconic look for you. Oh, yeah. The pony extension. I have seeing you go through so many phases. Yeah, but there's been phases. Because you're this is your personal brand, right? I followed you as a person. Doesn't matter what business you're in, I always know what you're up to because A, I remember you were a Pilates princess. Yes. Still are. Still are. Went to Sydney, came back, started your social media management, got your content creation studio. I don't think you would be able to just launch five different businesses and get a leg up like you have without leveraging off the personal brand. Yeah. Like trying to grow in a crowd from like zero is so much work.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

No, definitely. And I think a lot of people who come to FlickArt, when I started FlickArt, it I was very much the face of it. Like that's how we grew so quickly. But then when I started to hire a team, I went through, like everybody does, you want to look legit. And to most people, that feels like taking a step back and showing that you've got a team and you're this big real business now. And like, look at everything we're doing. Like, you know, we're so legit. Yeah. Meetings, I'm so booked and busy. But what people were really coming to Flickr for was me. And I think we lost a little bit of that somewhere along the way for a time. And then one day I honestly kind of just like woke up and was like, wait, the whole reason Flickr is where it is was because people are coming to the brand. Like they want to talk to Nina. If they're on a call, they want to talk to me, which is great. Um, and so I decided to lean into that a little bit more rather than leaning away from it, both with Flickr. Again, I'm very much the face of it still, but with my personal brand too, because that my personal brand account is almost the top of funnel for Flickr. Like a lot of people find my personal brand account. They like what we do, they like my editing style, and then they go, oh, she runs a social media agency, my socials can be like hers. And then they go into Flickr, and then they become a client. And seeing that again, it's that you see that phase work once, like you get one lead from that, and I was like, oh my god, this is the this is the recipe, this is the source. And yeah, now they work really beautifully together and support each other in their own respective ways, which is super cool.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Well, it's literally like activewear brands right now. You've got Millie Turley with Velocity, you've got Kia Buckley with Kikiva. Like, these aren't the brands they are without the founders. Totally. Because there's an identity aspiration. You either want to be their friend or you want to you bought like what were you saying to me before about bowling? It's like you want to buy in because they've given so much value. Yes. That when you want to give back. You want to give it away.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

It's that weird parasocial relationship that happens where you see somebody building a thing and being really raw and authentic and you see them struggle. And that's why we love storytelling. Like we don't want to see a perfect life. We want to see the d the downfalls because that's relatable. But then that's when we want to support and give back. And the the businesses who are doing really well are just absolutely nailing that. Like the biggest names in the industry, across any industry at the moment, have just nailed their personal brand. People aren't going to them because they have the best activewear or like they do the best hair. It's because they see that person and they relate to them and they like what they wear and they like how they speak and they just see something in them that they want to support. And a lot of times now in 2026, I think that's who is winning on social. It's not the best content, it's not the best business, it's not the best service, it's the the people behind it.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I think that's the benefit of us as Gen Z. We're more open to sharing that. Whereas if you look at millennials, Gen X, that older generation, it's keep your cards close to your chest. Do not let anyone know if you're doing well or if you're doing bad. And it's like this level of pride and ego. I think that shoots a lot of these founders who are trying to stay relevant in the foot because they're like, nope, if I just book a really nice photo shoot and if I get really good before and afters, and if I just keep pushing this promo, it will all work.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

It will all work. No, it's not the case. The older demographic, I personally think, are sleeping on social media and their personal brand so much because I think for Gen Z it's very, I don't want to say saturated, I don't want to discourage anybody. But like you say, we're a lot more comfortable doing it. We have grown up knowing if you want to start a business, you need to have a personal brand, you need to be on socials. The older demographic, not so much, and I don't think a lot of them have kind of stepped into like that there's a hole in their industry waiting for them to be, to take the spotlight as the leader in, and they're not doing it. And these people have built incredible businesses that have been active for years, like 10, 20 years. Like we don't have that time in the industry, but they're not willing to kind of come on camera and share. And I just think there's so much opportunity there for them. Um, and their demographic loves it, they absolutely love it as well. Like their audience would lap it up.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

It's true. Like, this is exactly what you're saying has happened with my dad. Eight years ago, he started posting videos of Bruce growing up. Yeah. And so it was him coming home and he would break into the house. And so it was just for years, no one really followed along. It was like maybe, you know, a thousand, two thousand. Maybe by about year seven, seven and a half, he was at 10,000 followers. In the last six months, we've grown it to 75,000. Oh my god, see? It's the consistency. Yeah. And there was no strategy. I think that was the thing. He just did it because he loved it. He liked it, yeah. But as he's done that, he's shown his voice and he kind of speaks on behalf of Bruce. You'd be like, oh, Bruce, why'd you do that? And so he shows his personality. Now, had he never done that, we wouldn't have a book. We wouldn't have had people traveling all over Australia to come to our rodeos, we wouldn't have hosted a music festival. Like that personal brand element in the whole business has been so valuable. And I think he was doing it for years before I saw it become popular. And even with my stuff, I'm like, build Sammy Kennedy, doing the Leaders Lounge, doing this podcast, like meeting people like you. None of that is going to happen without a personal brand. And the point I'm coming to is that if I meet you out, I'm probably not gonna follow Flickr. I'm probably gonna follow you. And then over time I might go, oh, okay, what's Flickr? I like Flickr. But my Initial reaction is not going to be to follow the brand. It's the founder always.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Which is almost better. Well, for me personally, it's better because I could have 17 different lives after this, and your your people are going to continue to follow you and support what you do. And that is the beauty of a personal brand. Like you're almost building long-lasting IP just by being yourself and turning yourself into a business. It's not something that will disappear and devalue if flicker clothes tomorrow, let's say. Like you've always got that there, no matter what you're going to use it for. And I think a lot of people wait, which I kind of did in a sense, until they've got the thing, they've got the proof that now I can be a personal brand. And I think people need to start reversing that. Like the quicker you can start building your brand, you're going to get better at content creation, which is one of the most valuable skills you can have in like the new age of AI. And I genuinely believe that. You can start whatever business you want, and you'll already have an audience there, even if you don't know what that business is. And you're just going to start to learn yourself more and probably find your passion a lot quicker than if you're just, you know, scrolling, following along.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Even content specifically, like documenting anything that will create cult following, community, people who are genuinely invested in your success. I remember the first time I really started to notice myself buying into this was when people were doing 75 hard. Yes. And that was like the OG every day, post on social media, going and doing my steps, going and doing my two gym sessions, reading a book. And it was like they were using social media to hold them accountable. Accountable. Yes. But if you take that principle of being so consistent, personal brands, influencers, businesses, if there's one thing that you can create that you keep coming back to, like I think years ago there used to be an influencer I followed, and every single day it was like she was picking out what act of where she was gonna go with. And when she stopped doing it, I was like, Is she okay?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yeah, yeah. I think this all the time with myself, even when I say like I'm filming a filming a blog like I am today. It makes you act like the best version of yourself. Like it genuinely does. If you constantly have a camera on yourself and you don't even need to be posting, like let's just say you're genuinely documenting your life. You really start to be conscious of your habits and you're like, wow, I didn't do any exercise today. I haven't even eaten a meal today. I've had three coffees and I didn't have lunch. And you start to really pick up on these things and you want to be the best version of yourself. Even if I'm filming myself at the gym and I'm doing a set of squats, I will do the best set of squats you've ever seen. Like I'm not dropping that weight because I'm filming myself and I'm I refuse to see myself in that light where I'm not doing the most. So that's actually an unexpected benefit of content creation I found that it actually makes you act like the person you want to be. It's a really interesting phenomenon.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

I love that because it sounds a lot less narcissistic than hey, look at me, I'm at the gym. And I think that's where I fell out of love with social media because I used to have a bit more of a negative mindset with it from the influencer world of they're not really providing value like a personal brand is. A personal brand is here to show the journey, storytelling, lessons. These are my values, this is what I stand by, this is our common enemy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Whereas influencer is like, I'm hot, look at me, and like buy everything I'm selling. Yeah, I definitely agree. I think, like I said, I have shifted to the personal brand a couple years ago now, and it has made me really fall back in love with it. It is scary because it's like, oh, I'm posting education now, and everyone's gonna think I'm a noatile or whatever that might be. But when you start to attract your audience, like my audience is 90% women or something on Instagram, which is a crazy statistic, knowing Especially since you're a hot chick.

unknown 47:55

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

But compared to what it used to be, like my old Instagram account was 90% men. Oh, yeah. Made a new one. I was like, no, we're doing this properly. And it is such a beautiful place to be now. Like I genuinely just post about, hey guys, I just read this psychology book and I loved it. Here are my favorite lessons out of it, or you know, tax time's coming up. This is what I'm how to save on your GST, like whatever it might be, just actual value for people who I genuinely want to see win. And that is so rewarding and motivating to be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

For the person who's considering starting, or maybe they're already doing it but they're not sure, okay, where can this take me? What opportunities have come from you really investing in building your personal brand?

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Oh my god, so many, like an unbelievable amount. I've been to workshops with Nike before. I've been featured on many podcasts, I've traveled, I've been to TikTok events, like just a crazy amount of opportunities. And I think, again, building a personal brand in 2026 is the most valuable skill that you could do. It, I don't want to say it is a social currency because that sounds vain and is not what I mean. But for example, if you're building a brand in the industry that you're dreaming of being in, it can fast track your success by like 50, 100%. And it's going to get you into rooms that you never would have been invited to. And those are the rooms that are really going to propel you.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

I wouldn't have you on this podcast if you didn't have your personal brands. Say there you go. You know, I look at, okay, I want a social media expert who's putting themselves out there, who's sharing value, who's got proven success stories. You're one of the first people that came to mind because I've seen that journey, I've built that trust. I could go to anyone. And I think that's the difference. It's like the personal brand also is the values, the connection, the person. Like, I love this person. I want them to be here. Out of curiosity, who are your favorite personal brands that you follow?

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Oh, Grace Beverly. Yes. She's absolutely my favorite. I love all of those like business girlies, like Amy Smile, I think that's how you say her surname, the girl who owns OddMuse. There's also a, she's an influencer, but she is a personal brand at the same time. Her name's Isabel Lorna. She is incredible. Her whole account is pretty much her acting, but you would never know it. There's a lot of strategy behind it, and she's like one of the fastest growing influencers out there. Um, and I adore Emma Graed as well. And I think she was a bit more low-key on the personal branding side until recent years when she was launching her book and really invested in it. Um, and you can see immediately the result of that. Like she's been in business for 20 years, nobody had really heard of her until she started her personal brand, and now she's known as one of the richest self-made women. So that just shows the power of putting yourself out there. And it is not vanity. I think that's the the other piece people need to let go of. And again, it can sometimes sound like it. Like I'm sure I've said things that sound like like, you know, you're just trying to be an influencer or whatever it is, but it's not, it's building your dream life in a world that everything you do is visible, and that's the quickest way to get there.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

If you think about it, if your goal in life is to impact as many people as possible, you've got to make noise. You've got to put yourself out there, you've got to do what other people aren't willing to do. Yeah, absolutely. I always think about this, like let's say there's awards, or let's say it's just starting a vlog. How many people say, Oh, I'm gonna do that, and they never do it. Everyone has the idea, but the results only come to those who actually action it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

I think um it's that whole thing of would you do it if you knew you weren't going to fail? And 99% of people would say yes to that, but it is just petrifying, putting yourself out there, you've never done it before, in front of the whole world where you might flop fall flat on your face. But I think there's a lot of comfort in knowing, and I remind my clients and myself of this all the time, is that most people don't care about you. They are not looking at you. They will be when you start to, you know, get results and you start to make it. Like, trust me, they'll all come and ask you how you did it. But those awkward phases where you're fumbling around and you're like, I hate what I look like on camera, I hate my voice. Nobody is watching, and you just need to keep going. You know, when people say, Oh, I have to delete it. It didn't get any views. I was like, no one saw it. Doesn't matter if you delete it or not. Like me filming content when I started versus now, I don't care. I'm like, I actually don't care what I look like. Don't care if my voice sounds weird, don't care if my stuff up. Because nobody cares. Nobody cares as much as I do. They're not sitting there going, Oh, I little hair was out of place. They care, am I delivering value to them? And do I seem friendly? That's pretty much it. And it's just getting the reps in, and you get really confident and comfortable with it after a while.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

So, do you believe that the way you built confidence is just through doing it again and again?

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Absolutely. And I look back on my content. Even yesterday, I was just shocked at some things I've posted, and it is mortifying looking back. But I genuinely think if you don't hate the content you were making six months ago, you're not posting enough and you're not growing enough. There is no way to get better than to just do the thing. So do the thing, try not to look back. I don't know why I did that. I don't recommend doing that to anybody. Um, but yes, just get the reps in, just do it.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

It is humbling, however, how are you meant to know if you're improving as well? Yeah, totally. So many people go, I can't stand the sound of my voice, and I want to watch that back. And I have to listen to every single podcast. If I want to go, oh, that bit didn't get edited out, that's a bit embarrassing, or hey, we didn't do this right, or maybe the lighting didn't look good, like we as we said off camera, there is videos where I look like Homer Simpson. My skin is so yellow, it looks like Jaundice. And had I not watched that back, I wouldn't have been able to pick up on that. So you kind of got to confront it. And then I find, I don't know about you, 99% of the time, I'm so much harder on myself. And when I watch it back, I'm like, it wasn't even that bad.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

It wasn't even that bad. Absolutely. I think another good tip I have for people starting or just getting comfortable with it is utilizing trial reels to just get content out there. And your following won't see it. So your like brother and sisters, uncles, cousins from high school that you know you're scared of them seeing your content, they're not gonna see it. But you can get the reps out there and you can start to see some traction and it just kind of builds a little bit more confidence and gets you into the practice of posting without feeling like everybody's looking at you.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Have you been doing a lot of trial reels? We smash trial reels.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Like how many trial reels are we talking? I try and post one a day on my personal account. For clients, it depends on their industry, on their niche. But a technique that we do use is if they have a very high-performing piece of content, like a viral reel, we will chop it up as much as we can and just like continually post it on trial reels pretty much until it dies. Because, like I said at the start, you can pretty much post the same piece of content and it will pretty much get the same result every single time if it's a viral reel. So we kind of rinse that as much as we can.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

I like watching Sabra Subi because he will film out a whole bunch of hooks for his ads. And it's like that first 10 to 20 seconds, he'll just chop and change, but then the main video is.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Exactly. You just change the audio, or maybe you change the text slightly on screen, or it's a bit shorter, there's a cut, just like little tweaks, but typically it will still get pushed out. If it's, you know, the crux of the video is the same, it will still get a great result. So we've had, yes, some that got, you know, a million, the next one got 500,000. I've posted one reel on my account. I think it's gotten four million views, three million, one mil, and something else that was ridiculous. Literally the exact same video, months apart as well. What was it? This is the one of me and Ben, where he like comes home and looks at me and he's like, hello. And he just looks at me with his like eyes, like he's so in love with me. That's pretty much the whole video, and it's just consistently going viral. I'm on that. Yeah, the comments are just like, oh my god, this is what love looks like. Like he's just drunk, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

I feel like this is the thing though. Sometimes you can have the strategy and you can argue it and you can plan and hook and do all the things, but then it's the random stuff.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Like to be honest, everything I post with Ben goes viral. It's like it makes me so frustrated because he doesn't post any content, and he also has a rule where like he'll be in my content, but he doesn't want it staged. So if I'm like, hey, sit down and film a video with me, he won't do that. But if I am naturally filming us doing something, like he doesn't care. Um, so every time the video is so organic and out of nowhere, and every time without without fail, it will go viral. But then I can't recreate it because he doesn't want to get in a video and stage it. And I'm like, you're my lost opportunity here.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

It's interesting though, like people connect with you more so over the things that have nothing to do with your business sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Yes, that's actually a really interesting point. And yes, when we build out somebody's personal brand, and people also get scared of this because they go, I don't want to show my whole life, I don't want to give it away all my secrets. And I'm like, you don't have to, but you do have to pick. It's like I said before, you kind of characterize yourself. So there's things in my life that I do not share and I will never share, but then there's some things like my relationship. That is something that's personal that I've chosen to share, and that just humanizes me. It's not like I'm just like a social media girl, like nothing else about me. My audience knows, you know, I have a boyfriend, and like we do dumb shit sometimes, and I love Diet Coke and I love Pilates too. Like, there's all these elements around me that kind of build up my little world that make people feel like they know me and they have a connection to me without me needing to divulge my deepest, darkest secrets. But that's what makes you different from the other social media girl who posts the exact same content as me, but you know, maybe she doesn't like Diet Coke, she likes Marchers, and somebody who likes Marcher might like her better than me. Um, so yeah, I think finding those little elements of your life that make you you without giving away your entire personality is really unique and special to socials.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

That's a really great point you make about finding those little things because most of the time the block to doing a personal brand or sharing things about your personal life is I think people just take it too far. And like, we don't need to hear about the thing that happened to you in higher school when you were 13 years old or when you had this breakup recently. Like, we don't need to know that side, and I guess that's where people just automatically think I've got to give away my deepest, darkest secrets.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Yes, and most people don't want to do that, and I think that's what holds them back. They confuse the word personal brand with personal. I'm like, we should just remove that word out of there because it's just a human brand. That's what it is. It's not your deepest, darkest, it's not your life on display. You don't need your diary entries. No, we don't need your diary entries. Nobody's doing a brand deal with a diary entry. Like, they don't need to see that. There obviously is that level of professionalism that you do want to keep. Um, so it's finding that balance, but keeping it human still. People like people. People want to know what you're drinking, they want to see what activewear outfit you put on in the morning. Like, what are your little rituals? What's special about you? Do you have a weird phrase that you say all the time? Those little things that seem so insignificant make a really big difference.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Oh, yeah. Alex Fernandez from Do You Fucking Mind podcast. Yes. She always signs off with like my beans.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

My beans, I love her. But she's a she's actually a great example. Like immediately what you said, I think the colour red, because of all her stuff is red. I think of swearing because she swears. Um, I think of her voice, I find her voice quite unique, and then the beans thing as well. So, like, that's four things that she has intentionally built into her brand that you think of straight away.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

But it's not like she's putting them on either. That is part of who she is. I think this is where people get stuck. They look at, and this could be relevant to personal brand or business brand. It's like, I see this person doing this, they're at the top of the industry, I'm just gonna copy and paste. That is not building a unique brand. It has to be relevant to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

It has to be authentic. Like, that's how you keep up with it. You cannot maintain this facade of this fake person. Like when I'm talking about the characterization, it's not faking it, it's being intentional about what you show. Like, this is Nina, this is Nina, my personal brand. Maybe I'm taking 50% from me and I'm intentionally choosing that. I'm not trying on different outfits from other people I see online and going, she swears, so I'm gonna start swearing, or she calls her audience if she wears pink all the time, I'm gonna start doing that. Your audience will see straight through that. And those are the moments that you would be looking back and going, that was not me. This is not, this is not what it was, like, it's just not it. You're not gonna attract aligned clients, opportunities, brands, and your audience will feel it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

I used to really struggle because I was in this mastermind years ago, and it was a lot of boss babes, and they just all call each other babe. And it's like, babe, no babe, yeah, babe. And I just cringe, like internally, but you know when you hang around people so much that yeah, you wouldn't pick it up. I would say it, and I would just feel like every time I'd say it, it's like I got a little electric chill down your stomach. And so I don't use that word, you know, but that is so true. Like when everyone else is doing it, I actually have a great example. When I was doing beauty six or so years ago, I remember everyone had pink branding, and I have for my whole life hated pink. Never been a pink girl. Always had blue, green, black.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

And I made my branding prank, and as time went on, I resented my brand. And every time I came up, I just couldn't even make like the colour palette work or graphics because I was just like cringing. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

I had that same experience too. That's when you know when you can't create content because you actually kind of hate your brand and it doesn't represent you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Yeah, and you I think naturally, if you are growing and evolving, this is where a lot of founders go, you know what? Me when I started this brand versus me five years in, it's so different. Like, don't shoot yourself in the foot and blame the business and say I hate all of this. It might actually just be that you've outgrown the brand and it's time to just reinvent it. Totally. You don't have to change the name, it just might be like a fresher look, better, like you've rebranded a few times as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah, we recently rebranded and that was a huge moment because we were known as like the blue brand. Like there was a lot of identity associated with that. That's how we kind of became known. And I intentionally did that because our whole industry was neutral and grey, which I did. And then I was like, wait, I hate this. I'm gonna go the polar opposite and go really bright blue, and it worked so well because it was so memorable. Um, but then earlier this year I had the same experience where I found it really hard to create content, it didn't feel like me, it just felt unnatural and icky, and I was really demotivated by it, and that's when you know, okay, it's time to change. And we have changed the brand, complete polar opposite of what it was, and I love it now. Back in love with it. Content is seamless, creating graphics is seamless, feels like me, feels authentic. Because yeah, the growth six months in even is crazy when you're working in a business, or you know, if you start at 20, you change a lot from 20 to 21. So, yeah, sometimes you just need to evolve, and that's totally fine. Your audience sees that too. Like you're a person at the end of the day. It's natural to evolve. Um, and that makes you more human as well, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Definitely. When you look at the future of Flickr and what you're doing, what are the big bucket list milestones or goals?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

I want to expand into the US. That's definitely the next goal. We do work with clients in the US, but I'd love to have a little bit more of a presence there. I think social media is a lot bigger over there. Opportunities are endless. Obviously, Australia is very small in comparison. Um, myself personally, I do really want to grow the personal brand more. I'm really passionate just about helping female founders in particular. Not necessarily even founders, but just women who are ambitious and want to do their own thing and they just want help getting there. Like I'm just really passionate about helping people realize that they can build whatever life they want, whether that is with socials or personal branding. Um, I would love to do something there. I'm not too sure what yet. Um, but that's definitely a goal. And for Flickr as well, we've just relaunched our community, which is also focused on helping founders grow their brand, but on a lower scale than working with us. So trying to reach as many people as we can to help them grow their business and actually like socials because when it works, it can genuinely change your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

Oh, completely different topic outside of it. Do you invest? Yes. And how has that been a big eye-opener for you? Because you can build the business, you can make all this money, but it's about like building the future that sets you up long term. What have been some of the best investments you've made, whether it's actual physical assets or if it's within yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

Ooh, right now I very heavily invest into the business because the cash we can generate there in a short amount of time is far beyond anything that I can invest in, like stocks. I did just buy a house as well, so we're starting to build that out. Um, but I would actually say the best investment I have ever made was a business coaching course when I first started Flickr, had no idea what. I was doing was a terrifying investment at the time. It was a thousand dollars a month. Um, and it really taught me a lot of the fundamentals of business that I still use today, but more than that, it connected me with a lot of other business owners who I still talk to daily. And I feel like they really got me through, you know, those early phases of the business where you have absolutely no idea what you were doing. And I think that was my first dip into the big pond of business that kind of just changed my mindset towards everything. I think networking, connecting with other people is always the best investment you can make. But yeah, that's probably mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

And what's your superpower as a founder? Like if you look at all the things that you're doing, because there's a lot. Yeah. What's the one thing that makes you successful in your eyes?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Yes, definitely the people perspective. I think in my line of work as well, it is a lot of relationship management and speaking to people on socials, making people comfortable around you, whether that's filming content, and then also with my team, getting them to see the vision, to understand what I'm thinking, helping them learn. That has been really pivotal for me. And I think that's why we've been able to grow, is because I have genuine connections with my team and my clients, and we really just want to see them win. We're not just like an agency who just wants to pump out clients. We get so deeply invested in our clients' business, and I think they really feel that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

Would you say you have a long client life cycle then?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:32

Not a burn and churn agency.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Definitely not a burn and churn agency, no, not at all. That is not our model. I mean, we could it's funny because when people say, Oh, you're so expensive, in my head, I'm like, well, I could do it cheaper, but you will not be happy with it. And I just kind of refuse to compromise on that. So, no, we will never be taking that route.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

I think you've got to have those standards. Like, if you want to be the best, you've got to charge accordingly. Like, everyone looks at these prices, and what they fail to see is when you pay that premium price, obviously, with someone who has ethics and integrity with what they're doing. Nine times out of ten, they're hiring the best staff. Yeah. The cheapest person is not hiring the best staff. The cheapest person doesn't have staff. They're not even retaining. Yeah, exactly. They have no staff. They're not retaining anything or anyone. And I kind of look at it now where I'm like, okay, who is the best talent? And you probably heard it a million times. You've got to hire the A players. You can't have these people who are just half in, half out. And I think the best brands are the ones that you almost drop your jaw to the floor of going, like, what? You're charging, huh? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

But then you see the clients, they get the results. Yeah. And like I've seen some astronomical retainers from other agencies as well. So, like, I understand that we are definitely on the premium end, but there are some out there charging 20k a month for what we do. So, you know, there's someone for everyone. We are not for everyone. No agency is for everybody. And, you know, it's like dating. You've got to find your perfect match.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

But also, I think sometimes I'm like, well, how much would it cost to hire those four staff full-time?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

It's also what you're losing, though, because okay, let's say you we go with an agency who's $1,500 a month. Great. But you're not really getting the results. You're actually probably losing that $1,500. Whereas if you pay a retainer that's like three and a half to five and a half, but you're getting all of the bang for your buck and you're getting leads through the door, then you're actually getting a return. So it's kind of just switching your mindset as to how you see it and what you need at the time. Like maybe you're not really trying to get results, you just want activity on your page, then maybe that's fine and maybe that's the best option for you. And I'm not saying one is right or wrong, it's just different approaches.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Yeah. I've had times where I went the agency route and it didn't work out. I was definitely overpaying for the bare minimum. And I was like, well, if I wanted to do the bare minimum, I could just hire the bare minimum myself. But I think that's where having experts coming in is definitely the point of difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

And don't get me wrong, there are many agencies who charge a ridiculous fee and they do not deliver and they do give us a bad name. And I I that is a problem in the industry, absolutely. And that's also why we try to stay very boutique. Um, and we have to keep the price up to stay boutique because again, if you're a massive agency, it's really hard to do quality control, it's harder to invest and care about your clients. So, yeah, that's not an uncommon experience, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

Coming back to your personal brand, I think that's the point of difference is your obsession. Like you said earlier that you love consumer psychology, you love understanding what makes people tick the whole client journey. That's the difference. I think someone who's just trying to put out content for the sake of content will never get the results.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

Yes, definitely. It's one of those things where even if you're putting 110% into it, you might still not be getting the results. So if you're putting 20% in, there's absolutely no chance that you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:03

So it's, you know, you gotta picture poison there. Fair enough. If someone wants to reach out to you, connect, or even work with you, where is the best place to find you and do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:14

Instagram for sure, at Nina UA or at Flickr Socials. I'll be online. 24-7. I love it. Are you addicted to social media? Question No, because I'm too aware. I'm far too aware of the tricks that they use to keep you addicted to it. I would say I'm obsessed with it and I do consume, but it's intentional consuming. So I do think there is a fine line. I would not say I'm addicted, but I I do a lot of market research. What's your screen time, Nino? My screen time on Instagram is one hour a day. My screen time in general is between four to five hours, which is pretty good when you work in social media, I think. Very good. We do have to keep the widget on the screen though, and we do have to have some time limits on apps, but I'm very strict, never more than five hours a day. That's really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Not bad for a content creator. I'm very impressed. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in to today's episode. If you found value in it, please take a screenshot, share it to your stories, and tag both of us with your biggest key takeaway. We'd love to know how you found it. If you want to connect with Nina, I'll leave all the links in the show notes, and I look forward to catching you in the next episode. Bye.